Celluloid, Digital, and What Comes Next

Hi, Mahi.

嗨，Mahi。

Welcome to Venture with Grace.

欢迎来到 Venture with Grace。

We're live.

我们在直播了。

Mahi can't hear me.

Mahi 听不到我说话。

Yes.

对。

Okay, amazing.

好的，太好了。

Okay, so start the show.

好，那就开始节目吧。

I would love for the audience to get to know you a little bit more.

我很希望观众能多认识你一点。

So, you're a serial entrepreneur.

你是一位连续创业者。

So, like you have co-founded a company.

你联合创办过公司。

I think you're the first company you founded were back in like 20 uh 2006.

我记得你创办的第一家公司是在 2006 年前后。

And then you have sold that company to uh ⟨?Opera Software⟩.

然后你把那家公司卖给了 ⟨?Opera Software⟩。

And then later on you have multiple successful like entrepreneurial experience before joining Higgsfield.

再后来，在加入 Higgsfield 之前，你还有过好几段成功的创业经历。

Maybe we could talk about like what were some core lessons that you've learned early on your career kind of shaped you into who you are today.

也许我们可以聊聊，职业生涯早期你学到的哪些核心经验，让你成了今天的你。

Um yeah, thank you, Grace.

嗯，好的，谢谢你，Grace。

I um if there's one thing that that I think made my entrepreneurial journey fun and successful is really focusing on things that I find really interesting that um you know, it it not not only captures my curiosity, but I can try to infect other people with that curiosity around the the journey of building a company.

如果说有一件事让我的创业之路又好玩又走得通，那就是只做我自己真觉得有意思的事——它不光勾起我的好奇心，我还能试着把这份好奇传染给别人，传染到一起建一家公司这件事上。

And I think if you can surround yourself with people that share that passion, you have a very high degree of success.

而且我觉得，只要身边聚起一群有同样热情的人，成事的概率就非常高。

Mm.

嗯。

I wonder are you Why are you so passionate about like the media space?

我很好奇，你为什么对媒体这个领域这么有热情？

Cuz I think of like the like basically the thread of like the past like couple of companies, I feel like you have been working with uh to the consumer space as well.

因为顺着你过去这几家公司的主线看，我觉得你一直也在做面向消费者的东西。

So, like basically conversational AI and you know, now at Higgsfield it's kind of like generative AI media slash you know, like things for creators.

比如对话式 AI，而现在在 Higgsfield，做的算是生成式 AI 媒体，或者说给创作者用的东西。

Uh maybe we could talk about like you know, in the media space like how does the ecosystem work?

也许我们可以聊聊，媒体这个领域，整个生态是怎么转的？

How does the money flow from like you know, whether it's brands or like creators and to you know, how do you think about that because I I think last week we were at the yeah, I think yeah, last week or like the week before we were at the Alumni Venture office and then you were talking about like consumer is going to lead the next wave of like next wave of like AI generation or like AI AI value creation.

钱是怎么流动的，不管是从品牌方还是从创作者那边来，你怎么看这件事？因为我记得上周我们在……对，我想是上周，或者再前一周，我们在 Alumni Venture 的办公室，当时你讲到，消费者会引领下一波 AI 生成、或者说 AI 价值创造的浪潮。

And maybe we could talk about like your view on like the consumer space in general and then maybe we could like go through like kind of like how does the media space work in general for whether it's creators or people generating content.

也许我们可以聊聊你对整个消费端的看法，然后再大致过一遍媒体这块整体是怎么转的，不管是创作者，还是那些在生产内容的人。

Yeah, Grace, I think what a common thread you know, in my career has been uh about storytelling.

好，Grace，我觉得我职业生涯里有一条共同的主线，就是讲故事。

Right?

对吧？

When I worked at at Apple, that storytelling was more around desktop publishing.

我在 Apple 工作的时候，那种讲故事更多是围着桌面出版转的。

That you know, it allowed not just professional writers and and publishing houses to be able to get content out to people that Apple you know, really helped individuals publish and and to do it like a very high quality.

它让内容不再只有专业作者和出版社才能送到大众手里，Apple 是真的帮到了个人去出版，而且质量做得非常高。

And I think when you go from like my journey at Apple while we were at while I was there, you know, Apple invented QuickTime.

而且我觉得，接着看我在 Apple 的那段经历——我还在那儿的时候，Apple 发明了 QuickTime。

It was the the the first kind of entree into where video and computers really started to come together.

那是视频和计算机真正开始走到一起的第一个入口。

And and that was a super inflection point for storytelling.

对讲故事来说，那是一个巨大的拐点。

Right?

对吧？

That again, you you you took something that was reserved for professionals.

又一次，你把原本只留给专业人士的东西拿了过来。

It was very expensive to do.

以前做这件事非常贵。

But now on your computer you could you could do it at at a tiny fraction of that cost.

但现在在你自己的电脑上，只要花那个成本的极小一部分就能做出来。

And and that's what brings us to Higgsfield today is that ability to um enable creators, all types of creators, big and small, to improve their storytelling.

而这也就引出了今天的 Higgsfield——就是那个能力：让创作者，各种各样的创作者，不管大小，都能把故事讲得更好。

And to do it without the cost of a camera crew and sets and logistics and and reshoots.

而且不用摊上摄制组、布景、后勤和补拍的成本。

Um being able to maybe start with a few digital images, whether it's a product or a persona, and then be able to to turn it into something really uh amazing and compelling.

也许只要从几张数字图像起步，不管是一个产品还是一个人物形象，就能把它变成非常惊艳、非常有感染力的东西。

For sure.

确实。

I wonder so like I guess like um since in terms of like storytelling, um how do you envision like people actually like in the future incorporate these type of product to um their day-to-day like video creation or like you know, do you envision so nowadays like you know, I think Facebook or like Instagram launched you know, the AI version of the Instagram or like I guess like OpenAI has like the Sora series just like the AI is its own platform versus you know, AI being incorporated into the video.

我很好奇，就讲故事这件事来说，你怎么设想未来人们真的把这类产品用进他们日常的视频创作里？或者说，你怎么设想——因为现在，我记得 Facebook 或者 Instagram 推出了 AI 版的 Instagram，OpenAI 也有 Sora 系列，就是 AI 自成一个平台，跟 AI 被嵌进视频里那种。

So, it's like half human half AI.

所以就是一半人、一半 AI。

Um how do you envision the future of like video creation kind of like play in the universe basically?

你怎么设想未来的视频创作，大概会在这个世界里怎么铺开？

Well, I I I think there's kind of two lanes here.

我觉得这里大概有两条路子。

One is persona-based storytelling.

一条是靠人物形象来讲故事。

Right?

对吧？

When when you host a podcast and and and you try to bring in your uh you know, your thoughts, your ideas to tell stories including others, of course.

比如你主持一档播客，你想把你的想法、你的观点带进来，去讲故事，当然也包括讲别人的故事。

Um that that tends to be a persona-driven uh exercise.

这往往是一件靠人物形象在推动的事。

And and I think you know, today you still are reliant on um a camera and and and you know, a platform that that mixes sound and and and video together.

而且我觉得，今天你还是得依赖一台摄像机，加上一个把声音和画面混在一起的平台。

But I think the the future with AI will let you do it in ways that are a lot really a lot easier.

但我觉得，有了 AI，未来会让你用轻松得多的方式做到这些。

Like if you had to um stitch in let's say a chart that talked about you know, the growth of of AI, the number of models, the number of users.

比如说你要插进来一张图表，讲 AI 的增长、模型的数量、用户的数量。

Um it's not very natural to do that today.

今天做这件事并不太自然。

I think very quickly we'll be able to um really kind of drag and drop that that information even in a live stream uh and and be able to make it quite quite natural.

我觉得很快我们就能把那种信息直接拖进来，哪怕是在直播里，而且做得相当自然。

Right?

对吧？

Like the stitching of it, the transitions of it.

比如它的拼接、它的转场。

Um and and what's what's very important in storytelling is engaging your audience.

而讲故事里非常重要的一点，是让你的观众投入进来。

Right?

对吧？

And that that kind of visual um hook that you have to use to to engage new audiences and and to make it um you know, pop on social media.

还有那种视觉上的钩子，你得靠它抓住新观众，让内容在社交媒体上跳出来、抓得住眼球。

Um that's where I think AI um really like a AI video assistant um can really help people tell their stories in a more compelling way.

我觉得这正是 AI，尤其是 AI 视频助手，能真正帮人们把故事讲得更有感染力的地方。

For sure.

确实。

I wonder when it comes to I guess in terms of storytelling, uh you know, when you guys uh first created like Higgsfield, like how did it first start it?

我很好奇，还是讲故事这件事，你们最早做 Higgsfield 的时候，它是怎么起步的？

Like what is like the first viral moment that you feel like this was you know, the defining moment of like the company's like trajectory?

第一个传开的时刻是什么？就是那个你觉得决定了公司走向的时刻。

I I think it it really was in um late March of this year when the company pivoted away from its mobile app, you know, when when Higgsfield first came to being, we were working on a mobile app called Diffuse.

我觉得真正的那一下是今年三月底，公司从自己的移动 App 转型的时候——Higgsfield 最早成立的时候，我们做的是一个叫 Diffuse 的移动 App。

And um you know, we were we were betting that the camera and and the mobile phone would be central to generative AI um image and and video.

当时我们押的是，摄像头和手机会是生成式 AI 图像和视频的核心。

And we still think it's an important ingredient, but not necessarily central.

我们现在仍然觉得它是一个重要的部件，但不见得是核心。

So, what our users told us was that they wanted more of a drag-and-drop experience uh because professional creators really still use desktop machines and they tend to have large monitors and and editing software.

我们的用户告诉我们，他们更想要拖拽式的体验，因为专业创作者其实还是在用台式机，他们往往有大显示器和剪辑软件。

So, we we pivoted to this web app uh at higgsfield.ai.

所以我们转到了 higgsfield.ai 这个网页应用。

And and and really started with this notion of uh templates instead of a prompt box.

而且一上来就用了模板这个思路，而不是一个提示词输入框。

And and that just it it took off almost instantly because people loved the the the kind of visual effects that the templates would allow them to do.

结果它几乎是瞬间就起来了，因为大家很喜欢模板能做出来的那些视觉效果。

And it instead of leaving it up to somebody's imagination at a prompt level, it was now inspiring people with some examples.

它不再是把一切都交给某个人在提示词层面的想象力，而是先用一些示例把人点着。

Like really visually stunning things that you could do that you could make your own.

那些视觉上真的很震撼、你又能拿来变成自己的东西。

I wonder so like I guess like so basically there's two shifts, right?

我很好奇，所以基本上有两个转变，对吧？

One is like from mobile to like web browser.

一个是从移动端转到网页浏览器。

And then the other part is like uh the templatified things.

另一个是把东西模板化。

Um I wonder why is people not on mobile?

我好奇，为什么大家不在手机上做？

Like since I feel like I would imagine people are you know, leveraging their phone to like make more videos than you know, be on the computer as like you know, I feel like CapCut, I mean I just use it on my phone, but for let's call it like um Canva, I would just use it on my computer.

因为我会以为，人们用手机做视频会比在电脑上更多，比如 CapCut，我就只在手机上用；但换成 Canva，我就只会在电脑上用。

But I would I feel like Higgsfield is more towards like um something that's like like video uh primary tool.

不过我感觉 Higgsfield 更偏向那种以视频为主的工具。

Yeah, and I I just think that the sweet spot um for early adopters, particularly, um are these professional creators that are more on their desktop.

是的，我就是觉得，尤其是早期采用者，最对的那批人是这些专业创作者，他们更多是待在台式机前的。

I It will absolutely um expand from there.

这块绝对会从那里往外扩。

And I think, you know, as a business, we also had to skate towards where people are willing to spend money.

而且我觉得，作为一门生意，我们也得往人们愿意掏钱的地方靠。

Mhm.

嗯。

Um you know, we don't have the deep pockets of a of an OpenAI or an Anthropic that um you know, they can they can fund a lot of product-led growth without, you know, kind of worrying about the bottom line.

我们没有 OpenAI 或者 Anthropic 那种雄厚财力，他们可以砸很多钱去做产品驱动增长，不用太操心盈亏。

But for us, it was important, um at least at that time of the journey, to be very focused on where we could build a business and we could attract um really stronger capital to to continue the journey.

但对我们来说，至少在当时那个阶段，重要的是死盯住我们能做成一门生意的地方，这样才能吸引到更强的资本，把这条路继续走下去。

I wonder, um since it is um I guess like a It is a consumer adoption kind of like market for I guess like it's like a consumer You guys started as a consumer company and nowadays you guys are launching a new feature soon for I guess like for teams or maybe if you could talk about that on like, you know, how do you think about the monetization piece or like creating product for both I guess individual pro users or like the the professional users to you know, selling to like teams and how do you think about monetization in general?

我好奇，因为这算是个靠 C 端用户自己上手的市场——你们是以一家消费级公司起步的，现在很快又要推一个面向团队的新功能。也许你可以聊聊这个：你们怎么看变现这一块？怎么既给个人的专业用户、也就是专业用户做产品，又往团队去卖？以及你整体上怎么看变现？

So, um in the first 6 months of this this iteration of Higgsfield, uh it's all been self-service, right?

Higgsfield 这一轮迭代的头 6 个月，全是自助服务，对吧？

So, even though we have large enterprises using our platforms, they all use it in single player mode.

所以哪怕有大企业在用我们的平台，他们也都是单机模式在用。

Mhm.

嗯。

And, you know, it's kind of funny to see that people at a large brand or an agency are using their personal credit card to uh to start their that that journey.

而且挺有意思的，你会看到大品牌或者广告公司里的人，是掏自己的信用卡开始用起来的。

what we're rolling out later this week is really a much more enterprise friendly solution.

我们这周晚些时候要推的，其实是一套对企业友好得多的方案。

It can still be for SMBs, so you can still access these great team uh multi-user features with a credit card, but it's also designed to scale nicely to companies that might want 50, 100, 200 seats um on our platform, but but uh with with core collaboration and um and enterprise grade um content management.

中小企业照样能用，你还是刷一张信用卡就能拿到这些很好用的团队多人功能；但它也能顺畅地扩展到那些可能要在我们平台上开 50、100、200 个席位的公司，同时带上核心的协作能力和企业级的内容管理。

Um do you envision in the future it's like, you know, one prompt and then like the agent manage the whole uh video creation from like Higgsfield or do you feel like it's like still like, you know, a human still play a very important part on like, you know, being very closely working with the production process?

你会不会设想未来是这样：一句提示词，然后 agent 在 Higgsfield 里把整个视频创作全管起来？还是你觉得人依然占很重要的位置，得非常紧密地跟着制作流程走？

Well, I think humans um that bring the creative energy will always be involved in the process.

我觉得，带来创意能量的人始终会参与其中。

We want to make it as easy as possible so that you can express yourself.

我们想把它做得尽可能简单，让你能表达自己。

You can try a bunch of different things without having to spend a lot of time or money.

让你不用花很多时间和钱，就能试一大堆不同的东西。

Um and then it you know, I think there's agentic things that can happen that help you um stitch things together, right?

然后我觉得会出现一些 agent 式的东西，帮你把素材拼起来，对吧？

Today, you might you might rely on a platform like CapCut or Premiere or um you know, Miro, um which are all, you know, great great tools, um but I think GenAI is going to require less reliance on on kind of that editing process.

今天你可能还得靠 CapCut、Premiere 或者 Miro 这类平台，它们都是很好的工具，但我觉得 GenAI 会让人对剪辑这道工序的依赖变少。

I think the you can have agents do it for you that understand kind of your style and and how you want to express yourself.

我觉得你可以让 agent 替你做，它们懂你的风格，也懂你想怎么表达。

I I I think humans will always be an important part of content creation and content um curation, um but the AI systems will just make it so much easier for you to execute.

我认为人永远是内容创作和内容策展里重要的一环，只是 AI 系统会让你执行起来轻松太多。

I wonder, so like I guess like when you guys first started, it was like kind of like the um pro users like our consumers.

我好奇，你们最早起步的时候，用的大体是专业用户，也就是我们说的消费者。

I wonder, how do you think about like pricing the product as well as like how do you think about like the revenue kind of like generation or like the sales process to the users?

我想知道你们怎么给产品定价，怎么看收入是怎么起来的，或者说面向用户的销售流程是怎么走的？

Because I think I'm sure nowadays like a lot of people heard of the company or heard of the product, but I guess like what is the journey look like for you guys to kind of like think about the road map?

因为我相信现在很多人都听说过这家公司、这个产品了，但你们这一路是怎么把路线图想出来的？

Was it like, you know, someone have to like fly to Hollywood to participate in like five designer parties or like going to the design conference to be like, guys, use this product at the beginning or would it be just like it was launched on TechCrunch and then like 4,000 people download the app like immediately.

是那种得有人飞去好莱坞、赶五场设计师派对，或者跑到设计大会上跟人说“各位，用一下这个产品”那样起步的吗？还是说就是在 TechCrunch 上发了个布，然后马上有 4,000 人下载了 App？

Um I wonder how was like the quite like, you know, I guess like how do you guys kind of like generated the first wave of user and then like historically, you know, I think there's like a the paid to non-paid percentage is always like very low um to like it's very hard to get people to pay for something.

我好奇你们大概是怎么做出第一波用户的？还有从过往看，付费和非付费的比例一直都很低，让人为一个东西掏钱是非常难的。

Um like even after like a few tries.

哪怕试了好几次也一样。

So, like how do you think about the monetization piece?

所以你们怎么看变现这一块？

Like how when do you start charging people and how do you think about like eventually, you know, becoming like a a $100 million ARR business?

你们是什么时候开始收费的？以及你怎么看最终做成一门 1 亿美元 ARR 的生意？

So, um great questions.

问题都很好。

I I I I think first of all, you know, we are all creators.

我想首先，我们自己都是创作者。

And and even when Higgsfield was 15 people, there were um a really uh set of employees that came from um the content creation world.

哪怕 Higgsfield 只有 15 个人的时候，就已经有一批员工是从内容创作那个世界过来的。

And and were deeply passionate about how AI could help them uh be more expressive.

他们对“AI 能怎么帮自己表达得更充分”这件事特别有热情。

So, we we were informed by that and then when when it was when we were pushing out the product, the web app, it was important to have those internal voices um as examples that we could showcase on on social media to show people, you know, what you could really do on a platform like like Higgsfield.

所以我们的做法是从这儿来的；后来我们把产品、也就是那个网页应用推出去的时候，很重要的一点是拿这些内部的声音当样例，放到社交媒体上，让大家看到在 Higgsfield 这样的平台上到底能做出什么。

And we grew that community from being, you know, internal, like uh half a dozen people, um to that broader creator community that's, you know, today I would say in the hundreds of thousands of creators um that have eventually now been able to reach tens of millions of creators.

我们把这个社区从内部的六来个人，做到了更广的创作者社区——今天我会说是几十万创作者，而他们最终已经能触达到数千万创作者。

all of that and you know, I would say wasn't super engineered.

这一切，我得说，并不是精心设计出来的。

It was um trying to create showcases, uh you know, of of like really dramatic cinematic um effects, use social media, you know, everywhere, whether it was X or YouTube or uh TikTok and and Instagram, um being able to, you know, bring our voice to like our Discord community and and have this become, you know, more of like a community-supported product.

更多是去做一些展示案例，那种非常有戏剧张力的电影级效果；用社交媒体，哪儿都用，不管是 X、YouTube 还是 TikTok、Instagram；把我们的声音带进 Discord 社区，让它变成一个更像是由社区托着的产品。

Um all of that led nicely into showing professionals that they could save a ton of time and effort by using our tools, which justifies the spend.

这一切很自然地过渡到下一步：让专业人士看到，用我们的工具能省下大把时间和精力——这笔钱就花得值。

Um because yes, when you when you launch a product, right, the the the free to to paid users is a is a is a huge chasm to try to cross, but if you can if you can show people real utility and you let them start at, you know, very low price points like, you know, $10 a month, um which we've maintained even even to date, but then giving the power users more features, more functions, more credits if they, you know, if they're willing to spend more a a month.

因为确实，产品一发布，从免费用户到付费用户是一道很难跨的鸿沟；但如果你能让人看到真实的用处，让他们从很低的价位起步，比如每月 10 美元——这个价位我们到今天还留着——再给重度用户更多功能、更多玩法、更多额度，只要他们每个月愿意多花一些。

And and and that's that's come together very nicely.

这些凑在一起，效果非常好。

Um you know, unlike a lot of uh service companies uh in the content space, we have very hard costs for every video generated on our platform, right?

跟内容领域很多服务型公司不一样，我们平台上每生成一条视频，都有实打实的硬成本，对吧？

Because of the GPUs.

因为要用 GPU。

it it just wasn't it it just wasn't a choice for us to um you know, really focus on free user growth.

所以只盯着免费用户增长，对我们来说根本不是一个选项。

We had to uh combine that with um with paid plans.

我们必须把它和付费方案搭在一起。

Um I uh I wonder, so like when it comes to the I guess like basically, I guess like is the ICP, let's say someone living in LA who makes like professional video for like advertising agency, is that like the ideal profile user that you guys are targeting?

我好奇，说到这儿——ICP 是不是比如说一个住在洛杉矶、给广告公司做专业视频的人？那是不是你们瞄准的理想用户？

I mean, I'm assuming for teams versus like, you know, for a random consumer, obviously there's like the $9 per month plan, which is like people like myself who is like, you know, maybe I curious who is like a creator who is like, you know, creating like a different type of content but like trying to try things out.

我是说，团队版跟一个普通消费者相比，显然还有每月 9 美元的方案，是给像我这样的人用的：可能只是好奇，或者是那种在做另一类内容、想试试看的创作者。

Like I guess like, how do you think about the stickiness of the product?

我想问，你怎么看这个产品的黏性？

And then for the ideal ICP, are they professional, you know, a business type of content creator slash like, you know, the actual filmmakers or like the actual advertising producers?

那理想的 ICP，是专业的、做商业内容的创作者，或者说真正的电影人、真正的广告制片？

Like or like are they more towards like, you know, TikTokers who are making, you know, the sort of video because I know that sort of template is like very huge on your platform as well.

还是说更偏那些在做这类视频的 TikTok 创作者？因为我知道那种模板在你们平台上也非常火。

Um how do you think about the like ICP?

你怎么看 ICP 这件事？

Or is there like a particular age or um area they all live in and like is there like kind of like a studio sale motion?

有没有某个特定的年龄段，或者他们都集中在某个地区？还有，你们有没有那种面向片厂的销售打法？

So like you have to like kind of call the production team at like each Hollywood studio to be like, "You want to use Higgsfield and we can give you a discount and like or how how do you kind of like work?"

就是说，得去给每家好莱坞片厂的制作团队打电话：“你们要不要用 Higgsfield，我们可以给你打个折”——你们大概是怎么做的？

It's interesting, Grace.

这挺有意思的，Grace。

It It really hasn't been um that kind of outreach.

其实真的不是靠那种主动找上门。

It It has been much more bottoms-up growth.

更多是自下而上长起来的。

Uh like we said, you know, building a sense of community.

就像刚才说的，是在建立一种社区感。

uh bringing people into that community, giving them, you know, some rewards, whether it's it's free credits or or you know, if they can really drive um subscriber adoption, you know, how how you can kind of affiliatize that that model.

把人带进这个社区，给他们一些回报——可能是免费额度，也可能是，如果他们真能带动订阅用户，就把这套东西做成类似联盟推广的机制。

Um so, you know, we got to 60 plus million ARR without a single salesperson in the company.

所以我们公司里一个销售都没有，就做到了 6,000 多万美元的 ARR。

Mhm.

嗯。

And and it was, you know, self-service, word of mouth, tiny little bit of uh you know, social media um paid uh paid promotion, but um you know, that that was a fraction of kind of the impressions we would have gotten that were more more organic.

靠的是自助服务、口碑，加上一点点社交媒体上的付费推广；但那只占我们拿到的曝光里很小一部分，大头还是自然来的。

but the ICP are professional creators that either get paid to create content and sometimes paid means they've got um an audience and the platforms are paying them.

但 ICP 是专业创作者，他们要么靠做内容拿钱——有时候“拿钱”的意思是他们有受众，平台在给他们付费。

Or uh they're being employed by a brand or an agency to tell that brand story.

要么就是被某个品牌或者广告公司雇来讲这个品牌的故事。

Um so, you know, at first it was a lot more kind of organic content creation, but today I'd say a majority of um what we see is really around marketing.

所以一开始更多是那种自发的内容创作，但今天我会说，我们看到的大部分其实都是围绕营销的。

Um marketing storytelling.

营销叙事。

Um and a lot of that being uh focus on products and being able to um you know, using our tools be able to tell that story about the product, the features, you know, why um you know, a person or or a corporation, a company should should be interested in that story.

其中很多聚焦在产品上——用我们的工具去讲这个产品的故事、它的功能，以及为什么一个人、或者一家企业、一家公司应该对这个故事感兴趣。

and it's not like early on we spent a little bit of time trying to look at um movie production, particularly in the short-form dramas.

倒不是说……早期我们确实花过一点时间去看影视制作，尤其是短剧那块。

Um cuz that's really taken off, not so much in the US, but in in lots of other but Asia, Latin America, um even Eastern Europe, you know, these are big big plays.

因为短剧真的起飞了，主要不在美国，而是在别的很多地方——亚洲、拉美，甚至东欧，这些都是很大的盘子。

But we found that, you know, the the short-form form drama companies actually had very small budgets for content creation.

但我们发现，短剧公司在内容制作上的预算其实非常小。

They have huge budgets for marketing.

他们的营销预算却非常大。

Mhm.

嗯。

So, we we were we were more effective helping them market those short-form dramas than to actually create them.

所以我们帮他们把短剧推出去，比帮他们真的把短剧拍出来更管用。

so, interesting learnings like that.

类似这样的收获挺有意思的。

You know, we've had people in the music industry without any outreach from us build these amazing music videos using our VFX.

我们一点主动接触都没有，就有音乐行业的人用我们的 VFX 做出了非常棒的音乐视频。

and and I think that's helped inspire um you know, lots of people that that are in that industry that want to create compelling content without having a huge budget for it.

我觉得这也启发了那个行业里很多人——他们想做出有感染力的内容，但手里没有巨额预算。

Um why is a short-form drama started becoming popular?

短剧为什么开始火起来了？

I feel like the first time I heard about it I was like, you know, the I think the Chinese in particular in the Chinese market, uh people were making like millions based off these like tiny shows, but I was like, "Where is the where how do you how do people make money?"

我第一次听说的时候，感觉——尤其是中国人、中国那个市场——有人靠这些很小的剧集就赚到了几百万，我当时想：钱从哪儿来？大家到底怎么赚钱的？

And my mom's like, "Uh people are paying for like the app and then like they would just watch continuously."

我妈说：“大家在给那个 App 付费，然后就一直往下看。”

Um first of all like I wonder like why is a tiny drama a thing?

首先我很好奇，这种小短剧为什么能成气候？

And then do you in like do you envision in the future people just going to cancel out um movies or like these actual long-form content like a long-form podcast or something?

然后你会不会设想，未来大家干脆就不看电影了，或者不看这些真正的长内容了，比如长播客之类的？

And then primarily focusing like short-form.

然后主要就盯着短的。

Do you feel like the in the future the TV shows are going to be like phone-based and then like, you know, people just watching on there?

你觉得未来的电视剧会变成手机上的东西，大家就在手机上看吗？

Or um what are some like trends that in the media space or I guess like kind of excites you?

或者说，媒体领域有哪些趋势让你觉得兴奋？

And another part is like why do they have like a huge marketing budget um but very low production budget?

还有一部分是：为什么他们的营销预算那么大，制作预算却非常低？

Well, I you know, I think um there are a lot of cultural influences that um make us lean one way or the other, right?

我觉得,有很多文化因素在推着我们偏向这边或那边,对吧?

I I I think um in large urban settings um that tend to include a lot of like commute time, um which is true in, you know, many parts of Asia, many parts of uh Latin America, uh I think it short-form dramas kind of capture um that that um ability to engage people on a phone uh in, you know, kind of bite-sized entertainment.

我觉得在那种大都市环境里,通勤时间往往很长——亚洲很多地方、拉美很多地方都是这样——短剧多少抓住了那种在手机上把人吸住的能力,那种一口大小的娱乐。

In many ways that that TikTok kind of rewrote um short-form content um that wasn't so much focused on you and your friends, but sort of you and what you're interested in.

在很多方面,TikTok 算是把短视频内容重写了一遍:它的重心不在你和你的朋友,而在你和你感兴趣的东西。

Um and and we see, you know, like even TikTok in the US, you're starting to see some of the short-form dramas take a foot.

而且我们看到,就连美国的 TikTok 上,你也开始看到一些短剧站住了脚。

I wouldn't say anywhere close to what we've seen in markets like China or India, um but I think there there's an opportunity here.

我不会说这已经接近我们在中国、印度这类市场看到的程度,但我觉得这里是有机会的。

But at at a at a larger, right?

不过要放在更大的层面上看,对吧?

Like bite-sized entertainment, um whether it's, you know, things that just make you laugh or things that help you learn, it it's a very, very broad ecosystem, right?

比如一口大小的娱乐,不管是让你笑一下的,还是让你学到点东西的,这是一个非常非常宽的生态,对吧?

And and we pretend uh we don't pretend like we understand any of those things.

而我们假装——我们并不假装自己懂这里头的任何一样。

Uh what's important for us is can we make it easy uh to to create that content and and then leverage whatever distribution platform to to get it out to the masses.

对我们来说重要的是:能不能让这类内容做起来更容易,然后借助现成的分发平台把它推向大众。

Um I wonder one thing is like I guess like how do you make something go viral these days?

我想问的一件事是,我猜就是,现在你怎么让一个东西传开?

Is that just because of like the Is that why like the marketing budget is so heavy?

是不是就因为——是不是这就是营销预算这么重的原因?

So like on TikTok you can constantly throw like just like watch these like short-form dramas like clips that force you to download stuff.

比如在 TikTok 上,那些短剧片段可以不停地往你面前推,逼着你去下载。

Like I guess like does these things actually work?

我猜想,这些东西真的管用吗?

Um or how do you make something go viral basically?

或者说,你到底怎么让一个东西传开?

Um I I think it it really has to start with a strong community.

我觉得这真的得从一个很强的社区开始。

Right?

对吧?

Uh I I think this has worked for um individual creators.

我觉得这一套在个人创作者身上是奏效的。

Like, you know, if you if you think about the Kim Kardashians or the Mr. Beasts of the world, um they know their community and they know what the community is looking for.

比如说,你想想世界上那些 Kim Kardashian、那些 Mr. Beast,他们了解自己的社区,也知道社区想要什么。

Um when you're a company, it's a lot more complicated, right?

而当你是一家公司,这就复杂多了,对吧?

Because you have to be you can't be super salesy about it, um but you want to invite people in because you kind of blow their minds that that, you know, something like a an extreme like DOP effect is possible.

因为你必须——你不能弄得特别像推销,但你又想把人请进来,因为你多少得震住他们:原来像那种极致的 DOP(摄影指导)效果也能做出来。

Um because, you know, until you see it, you don't know that that these things can get done.

因为在亲眼看到之前,你不知道这些事情能做成。

But if you can then um leverage kind of the ingenuity of your community to make it their own story, right?

但如果你接下来能借上社区的巧思,让它变成他们自己的故事,对吧?

It's It's like It's one thing to do like this this extreme zoom out of, let's say, you know, you sitting outside your house and then it zooms out to outer space and, you know, you see yourself as being this kind of tiny speck in this enormous planet.

做一个极致的拉远是一回事——比方说你坐在自家门口,镜头一路拉到外太空,你看见自己不过是这颗巨大星球上的一个小点。

Um but when when you can take that effect and then let people make it their own and and put their twist on it, now you've got something viral.

但当你能把这个效果交出去,让人们把它变成自己的、加上自己的花样,这时候你手里才有了能传开的东西。

Um and and we've seen that happen with some very specific features that we rolled out that um is kind of eye-popping and and engaging.

我们上线过几个很具体的功能,就出现了这种情况——挺让人眼前一亮,也挺抓人。

And and that just, you know, is is kind of a core ingredient to virality.

而这差不多就是病毒式传播的一个核心要素。

Why?

为什么?

I guess like how do you build an engaging community as a content creator?

我猜想问的是,作为内容创作者,你怎么建起一个高参与度的社区?

Um I again, I I wish there was like a formula that we could tap into, but I I I think it's it's finding resonance with them.

我还是那句话,我真希望有个能直接套用的公式,但我觉得关键是跟他们找到共鸣。

And resonance that um people want to share.

而且是那种人们愿意分享的共鸣。

Because it's one thing like you know, let let's take something very different like the stock market.

因为——我们拿个完全不一样的东西来说,比如股票市场。

Um it's one thing to like understand how um you know, to like look at, let's say, a PE ratio of a stock and use that as kind of, you know, your your rationale for why you think that's that's interesting and then you try to, you know, speak about that and make that uh more viral.

去看一只股票的市盈率,把它当成你觉得这只股票有意思的理由,然后你试着把这个讲出去、让它传得更开,这是一回事。

It's very difficult because you're you're you're trying to reach a very a very small audience that's very dispersed.

这非常难,因为你要触达的受众很小,而且非常分散。

So, we kind of take the opposite approach, which is can you can you use a few people uh that have enough sort of touch points across a broad audience that each person sort of is is infecting their constituent, but there's a bigger And the bigger story, like, in our case is is GenAI.

所以我们走的差不多是相反的路子:能不能找几个在广泛受众里有足够多接触点的人,每个人去感染自己那一圈,但背后还有一个更大的——更大的故事,在我们这儿就是 GenAI。

Mhm.

嗯。

Here's the coolest new thing you can do with GenAI.

这是你能用 GenAI 做的最酷的新东西。

And instead of it being, let's say, you know, how to read PDFs and and um you know, to do some kind of post-training, uh this is about like doing something really cool and and visually impactful.

而且它不是比方说怎么读 PDF、怎么做某种后训练那类事,而是做一些真正很酷、视觉上有冲击力的东西。

I like what you said about like, you know, essentially like people have to find like the something that's like resonating with people and then like something that people want to share.

我喜欢你刚才说的那个——本质上你得找到能跟人产生共鸣的东西,而且是人们愿意分享的东西。

Um I wonder like what are some effect that people want to share.

我想知道,有哪些效果是人们愿意分享的。

You mentioned about like, you know, uh by just being very edgy on like the um visual is helping, but like a lot of it is like, you know, I guess like personalized storytelling {slash} like having your own like, I guess, like character in it.

你提到视觉上做得非常大胆是有帮助的,但很多时候我猜是那种个性化的叙事,或者说里面有你自己的角色。

Um when I guess like when it comes to the from the business angle, like, I think the creator market is like one of the hardest to like target because of like people have different taste on like what's good, what's not, and like, you know, what I guess like in general, it's like from the marketing like, I guess, like the marketing budget {slash} like, you know, nowadays like people have like Adobe, people have Canva, people have like some other creator tools.

我猜从生意的角度看,创作者市场是最难打的市场之一,因为大家对什么好、什么不好口味各不相同,而且总体上从营销、我猜是营销预算的角度看,现在大家有 Adobe,有 Canva,还有别的一些创作者工具。

Um where do you feel like Higgsfield will like kind of sit in the creator tooling uh arena going forward?

那你觉得 Higgsfield 未来在创作者工具这个赛道里会占什么位置?

Well, I I think what what makes Higgsfield interesting is that we make creators less reliant on old world tools.

我觉得 Higgsfield 有意思的地方在于,我们让创作者不再那么依赖旧世界的工具。

Right?

对吧?

I If you if you think about the evolution, like, you know, video used to be you had to shoot it on film, you had to develop it, which is much harder than developing, let's say, a photograph.

你想想这个演进:以前做视频得用胶片拍,还得冲洗,这比冲一张照片难多了。

Um you had to edit it like physically, like cut uh it it you know, celluloid, uh piece it together, and and then, you know, try to come up with the a finished product.

剪辑也得动手,真的去把胶片剪开、再拼起来,然后想办法弄出一个成片。

Now, platforms like like Final Cut and and Premiere made that a lot easier because you were now working in the digital domain, but it's still cumbersome.

后来 Final Cut、Premiere 这类平台让这件事容易多了,因为你已经在数字里干活了,但还是很笨重。

Right?

对吧?

You need to understand like time signature and and audio and, you know, how all this stuff comes together.

你得懂时间码,懂音频,懂这些东西是怎么拼到一起的。

But we've made, I think, a bigger leap forward from celluloid to digital, digital to GenAI, um which just makes everything so much easier.

但我觉得,从胶片到数字、再从数字到 GenAI,我们这一跳迈得更大,一切都变得容易太多。

Right?

对吧?

And and it doesn't require reshoot.

而且它不需要重拍。

Um it you know, if something isn't perfect, it's just a matter of like changing the scene or changing the lighting and and and making it pop.

哪里不够完美,不过是换个场景、换个打光,把它弄出彩。

I think we're we've given like a step function um in productivity.

我觉得我们在生产力上带来了一次阶跃式提升。

And I think because of that, people are willing to pay uh to use these tools.

也正因为如此,人们愿意花钱用这些工具。

Right?

对吧?

Particularly if if your livelihood is content-driven, and you can do something in 5 minutes that used to take 5 hours, of course, you're going to spend a little bit of money doing that.

尤其是如果你的生计靠内容,5 分钟就能做完过去要 5 小时的事,你当然愿意为此花点钱。

Because the ROI is is so profound.

因为 ROI 实在太可观了。

I wonder, so like um what does your day-to-day kind of look like um as a, you know, co-founder of Higgsfield?

我想问,作为 Higgsfield 的联合创始人,你的日常大概是什么样的?

And then, you know, obviously you run primarily the business side and like how do you structure your day to like move things forward?

还有,很明显你主要管业务这一侧,你怎么安排一天,把事情往前推?

And then, how do you kind of like set KPI for yourself like each month since you guys have been, you know, this company have only been there for like less than a year.

还有,你怎么给自己定每个月的 KPI?毕竟你们这家公司成立还不到一年。

So, you guys have accomplished a lot and you guys just raised like a Series A and how do you think about the business benchmark that you set for yourself?

你们已经做成了很多事,而且刚拿了 A 轮,你怎么看自己给自己设的业务基准?

the business benchmark is you know, we want by the end of this decade uh that one out of every two videos on social media will be built on our platform.

业务基准就是,我们希望到这个十年结束的时候,社交媒体上每两条视频里就有一条是在我们平台上做出来的。

And even though that's may seem audacious, we actually think it's very achievable.

这听着可能有点狂,但我们其实觉得非常做得到。

Because if you can make it super easy, you know, just like like YouTube made it super easy to post content that you created, um we think we're making it super easy to make professional-grade um in a tiny fraction of the time that it it it took to do it a year ago.

因为如果你能把它做得超级简单——就像当年 YouTube 把发布自己创作的内容变得超级简单——我们觉得我们正在让做出专业级的东西变得超级简单,而且只花一年前所需时间的一个零头。

our job is to really mechanize that.

我们的活儿就是把这件事真正变成一台机器。

Right?

对吧?

How do we reach a large larger audience?

我们怎么触达更大的受众?

How do we give them better features?

我们怎么给他们更好的功能?

How do we overcome some of the societal speed bumps that um that tend to uh slow down adoption.

我们怎么跨过那些拖慢采用的社会性减速带。

Right?

对吧?

There there's the the issue of, you know, how uh how how do you make it not not only safe to use AI, uh how do you make sure that you address all the business issues around the use of AI.

这里有个问题:怎么让用 AI 这件事不只是安全,还要把围绕 AI 使用的所有商业问题都处理好。

You know, and and that really comes down to content creation and gamification and, you know, all of the things that um make make technology tick.

而这最后就落到内容创作、游戏化,以及所有那些让技术转起来的东西上。

So, day-to-day, we we focus on, you know, what do we do on the platform?

所以日常上,我们盯的是:平台上要做什么?

What are the features we're working on?

手上在做的功能有哪些?

Um you know, how do we expand the customer base?

怎么把客户群做大?

How do we move up the value chain from prosumers to to enterprises?

怎么沿着价值链往上走,从专业消费者走到企业客户?

And um making sure that we're working with the the broader community.

还有,确保我们跟更广泛的社区一起做事。

Right?

对吧?

It's important that we can bring the best models to users under one one umbrella offering.

很重要的一点是,我们能把最好的模型放在一个统一的产品体系下交到用户手里。

Um so, s- keeping pace with what OpenAI is doing and what Google's doing and what ByteDance might be doing.

所以要跟上 OpenAI 在做什么、Google 在做什么、ByteDance 可能在做什么。

Um so, a lot of moving parts, but, you know, you take one step at a time in being able to make sure that the the organization scales, the platform scales, the marketing scales.

所以要顾的东西很多,但你就是一步一步来,确保组织跟得上、平台跟得上、营销也跟得上。

ultimately, we're delivering utility.

最终,我们交付的是实用价值。

Um what's your thought on these like coding platforms?

你怎么看这些编程平台?

Um so, I feel like nowadays like, you know, people always say there will be like a one billion-dollar company that created by one person, that kind of stuff.

我感觉现在大家总说,会出现一家一个人做出来的十亿美元公司,诸如此类。

Um what on that spectrum from like one person billion-dollar company to, you know, the Google OpenAI afterwards, like, which is you know, OpenAI themselves is hiring engineers all the time.

在这个光谱上,一端是一个人的十亿美元公司,另一端是 Google、OpenAI 这种——OpenAI 自己就一直在招工程师。

So, like I wonder like how do you think about um I guess like producing a great product or {slash} like running a company, would you spend the budget to primarily hiring just more engineers to like provide the product itself or do you feel like it's like you need like more of a go-to-market team?

所以我想问,我猜是关于做出一个很棒的产品、或者说经营一家公司:你会主要把预算花在多招工程师、把产品本身做出来,还是你觉得更需要一支 go-to-market 团队?

Like these like short films that they are spending huge marketing budget, like, you know, how do you kind of like spend your own like budget within like the producing a really interesting tech product?

比如那些短剧,砸的营销预算特别大;你自己在做一个真正有意思的技术产品时,预算大概怎么花?

Um so, you know, being a being an engineer myself, uh I think it's it's it's amazing what these coding platforms are able to how they can help engineers become better engineers.

我自己就是工程师出身,我觉得这些编程平台能帮工程师变成更好的工程师,这挺了不起的。

But they're not a replacement.

但它们替代不了人。

Right?

对吧?

And and I think that yes, there is a little bit of disruption in you know, technology, let's say software development because you might not need as many junior coders, right?

我也觉得确实,技术领域——比方说软件开发——受到了一点冲击,因为初级程序员可能不需要那么多了,对吧?

You might not need as many QA people.

QA 也可能不需要那么多人。

Um because some of those things can be automated and and more efficiently uh run by machines.

因为其中一些事情可以自动化,机器跑起来效率更高。

But, you know, uh good good product development takes creativity.

但好的产品开发需要创造力。

And it you know, engineers are are also like very creative people.

而工程师本身也是很有创造力的人。

They express themselves very differently than let's say a visual designer.

只是他们表达自己的方式,跟比方说视觉设计师很不一样。

I think like when when we think about our own uh R&D staff, our research staff, they're they're absolutely critical uh to the growth of our business and you know, we encourage them to use tools that make them more efficient.

拿我们自己的研发和研究人员来说,他们对我们业务的增长绝对是关键,我们也鼓励他们用那些能让自己更高效的工具。

Um but but but I don't see at least for a company like us, we're never going to be you know, reliant on on AI code generation to push out the next feature.

但至少对我们这样的公司,我们绝不会靠 AI 生成代码来推出下一个功能。

but we think, you know, human engineers are are a very important part of that journey.

我们认为人类工程师是这一路上非常重要的一部分。

And I think you can also look at how does that influence um you know, product uh like in the startup world, there are people like you know, in particularly in Silicon Valley where where they've tried to say like look, um using vibe coding, I I'm able to build a prototype very quickly and I can put it on the App Store and you know, it's going to take off.

我觉得你也可以看看这对产品有什么影响,比如在创业圈里,尤其是硅谷,有人会说:你看,用 vibe coding,我很快就能做出原型,放到 App Store 上,然后它就会火。

I and and I think the reason why we haven't really seen a vibe coded hit application is because it's there's a a component to marketing that, you know, there's a component to um to getting user feedback and iterating.

我觉得我们之所以还没真正看到一款 vibe coding 做出来的爆款应用,是因为这里面有营销的成分,有拿到用户反馈再迭代的成分。

And the vibe coding platforms are not good at that right now.

而 vibe coding 平台现在还不擅长这些。

So, they're they're an important assistant and they'll get better, but they're not a replacement for the creativity of humans.

所以它们是重要的助手,以后也会更好,但替代不了人的创造力。

For sure.

当然。

Um I don't know if you have like a few more minutes, I have three more questions for you.

不知道你还有没有几分钟,我还有三个问题想问你。

Sure.

可以。

Okay.

好。

One is like you have been at various like successful companies like you kind of like started them and then you run them to like a very successful place.

第一个是,你待过好几家很成功的公司,基本上是你把它们做起来,再一路经营到很成功的位置。

What is your like um secret?

你的秘诀是什么?

Like is there like a one of the things that you've learned that's like you you feel like most people think the opposite?

有没有哪件你学到的事,是跟大多数人想的正好相反的?

I have to think about that a little bit.

这个我得稍微想一下。

I you know, I I go back to um just passion for a product and and then you know, not being so passionate that you know, you turn into like a chaotic exercise.

我还是会回到对产品的那股热情,但又不能热到把事情搞成一团乱。

It has to be passion that's governed by feedback, right?

得是由反馈管着的热情,对吧?

Because I think you can have a very passionate sort of um starting point, but you have to evolve that passion in in kind of being receptive to how the market reacts to it, how investors react to it, you know, how your employees um get behind it because I think successful companies are not just driven by an individual.

因为我觉得起点可以非常有热情,但你得让这份热情往前长,去吸收市场怎么反应、投资人怎么反应、员工愿不愿意跟上,因为我觉得成功的公司不是靠一个人推起来的。

It is a team.

它是一个团队。

Mhm.

嗯。

And and I think also that team feeling like um agency in in really being part of that that group um thought.

而且我觉得,那个团队还得觉得自己有主动权,真正是那个集体思考的一部分。

And And this is why like teams are so much better than than individuals at doing something.

这也是为什么做事情团队比个人强那么多。

Mhm.

嗯。

Um I I think that the second part of it is is more about it you know, the the notion of conviction uh that's brutally tested.

我觉得第二点更多是那种被狠狠检验过的信念。

You know, another way of saying that is that passion by itself um can get you only so far.

换个说法就是,光靠热情,走不了多远。

Mhm.

嗯。

Um but you have to be able to put yourself out there, you know, spend a little bit of money in in creating that kind of initial push to to get it into the hands of of consumers or enterprises, whoever your target market might be, and then be willing to um really listen to that to that feedback because I think you learn so much when it's the outside world looking in um and you know, kind of your your own assumptions um that are untested.

但你得敢把自己亮出去,花点钱制造那种最初的推力,把东西送到消费者或者企业手里——不管你的目标市场是谁——然后愿意真正去听那些反馈,因为外面的人往里看的时候,你能学到太多,而你自己那些假设从来没被检验过。

That's so deep.

太深刻了。

So, it's like basically listening to feedback um from the customers.

所以基本上就是听客户的反馈。

I think it's very hard because sometimes the customers are throwing like like a very unreachable goal.

我觉得这很难,因为客户有时候抛出来的目标根本够不着。

Um what would you kind of like do in that situation?

那种情况下你会怎么办?

I think like people whenever you're selling something to consumer, people want to use like $1 to buy like you know, the car or whatever.

我觉得只要是卖东西给消费者,人们就想花 $1 买一辆车之类的。

So, like they always want to pay $0 and then got the you know, Higgsfield in return.

所以他们总想付 $0,然后把 Higgsfield 拿到手。

So, like I feel like to get anyone to pay or the expectation is like very unreal.

所以我感觉让任何人掏钱都很难,或者说那个预期非常不现实。

So, yeah, they could be like yeah, how do you kind of like balance that like you kind of meet them where they are, but also like not losing money to like get there.

所以,是啊,他们可能会——那你怎么平衡?既顺着用户现在的样子去迁就他们,又不至于为了走到那一步而亏钱。

Well, Grace, I think this is this is a core learning at Higgsfield is because we saw we saw ChatGPT take off, right?

Grace,我觉得这是 Higgsfield 学到的核心一课,因为我们看到 ChatGPT 起来了,对吧?

It started in 2022 and we saw just the amazing amount of people they attracted to the platform.

它从 2022 年开始,我们看到他们吸到平台上的人多得惊人。

And and our thinking was like, hey, the the that's interesting.

我们当时想,嘿,这有意思。

People generate a lot of content.

人们会生成大量内容。

Why not go after consumers uh as well?

为什么不顺带也去做消费者?

But what we learned is it wasn't the consumers weren't interested, they just didn't understand the utility.

但我们学到的是:不是消费者不感兴趣,他们只是没搞懂这东西有什么用。

Mhm.

嗯。

Right?

对吧?

They didn't understand that they could really use this platform to make money.

他们没意识到,自己其实可以用这个平台赚钱。

Mhm.

嗯。

And until we we pivoted and found that audience and then could use that audience to really expand our story, um expand our reach, uh did it then come back to the consumer saying, "Oh, I get it. You know, this is what I can do."

直到我们转了向、找到那群受众,再用这群受众把我们的故事讲开、把触达面撑大,消费者这才回过头来说:“哦,我懂了,原来我可以这么用。”

So, it's I I think for for any company, you got to find that that resonant audience that will buy your product and then leverage that audience to make your your your value proposition better understood.

所以我觉得,任何一家公司都得先找到那群有共鸣、会买你产品的受众,再借这群人把你的价值主张讲明白。

For sure.

当然。

Um okay, so I want to be mindful of the time, but maybe one real question and then one minute fire round.

好,我想注意下时间,那再来一个正经问题,然后一分钟快问快答。

Um real question is like you have seen so many amazing creator tools in the space.

正经问题是:你在这个领域见过特别多很棒的创作者工具。

Like what you feel like I guess like investor are investing in are the right sector and then what are something that like you feel like is not investable um in the I guess like whether it's creative space or like consumer space.

你觉得投资人现在投的是不是对的赛道,又有哪些是你觉得不能投的——我猜不管是创意这块还是消费这块。

Well, I think there's there's a lot of investor interest in GenAI, but also uh GenAI applied to big market problems, right?

我觉得投资人对 GenAI 兴趣很大,但更是对把 GenAI 用到大市场的问题上有兴趣,对吧?

Like if you think about content creation in the advertising ecosystem, the ad business is now a trillion dollars uh and growing globally.

比如你想想广告生态里的内容创作,广告这门生意现在全球是 1 万亿美元的盘子,还在长。

Um and why it continues to grow is because it fuels uh eight and a half trillion dollar um commerce engine around the world, right?

它之所以还在长,是因为它给全球 8.5 万亿美元的商业引擎供燃料,对吧?

And and those things, they're not recession proof, but they tend to be you know, they don't disappear when there's economic downturns.

而这些东西谈不上抗衰退,但通常经济下行的时候它们不会消失。

There might be a little bit of correction.

可能会有一点回调。

So, I think investors like that, um they look for companies that um have been able to demonstrate product market fit and where where it's there.

所以我觉得投资人喜欢这一点,他们会找那些已经证明了产品市场契合的公司,而且是真的做到了的。

It It's a little unfair because there are a lot of great companies, but the ones that get funded are the ones that have been able to um to to show uh product market fit.

这有点不公平,因为好公司很多,但拿到钱的是那些能拿出产品市场契合的。

I think that there are still problems um that are that are hard to invest in Like um you know, the the uh visual recognition like you know, we spend a lot of research time thinking about visual recognition.

我觉得还有一些问题很难投,比如视觉识别——我们花了大量研究时间在琢磨视觉识别。

Like what is what is in a scene?

一个画面里到底有什么?

You know, what can you what what can you tell about it?

你能从中判断出什么?

Um you know, are there things that you could detect like, you know, things that are um sensitive content, for example.

有没有一些东西是你能检测出来的,比方说敏感内容。

it's a very hard problem.

这是个非常难的问题。

you know, even though there's a there's a need, you we haven't yet seen like a breakout company in that space.

尽管有需求,我们到现在还没看到这个领域里跑出一家真正冒头的公司。

Uh there are a lot of like B2B tools companies that are doing okay.

有不少 B2B 工具公司做得还行。

But I think that's that's another interesting frontier that we're likely to see some some big players come out in the next couple of years.

但我觉得那是另一个有意思的前沿,未来两三年里很可能会有一些大玩家从里面冒出来。

That's so interesting.

这太有意思了。

Um okay, so one minute for our own.

好，那我们来一分钟的快问快答。

Uh what's your favorite book?

你最喜欢的书是哪本？

My favorite book.

我最喜欢的书啊。

Um I haven't even thought about that for a long time.

我已经很久没想过这个问题了。

You know, um um the A Thousand Years of Solitude.

《一千年孤独》⟨?百年孤独⟩吧。

Wow.

哇。

Uh who made the biggest impact in your career?

在你的职业生涯里，谁对你影响最大？

Steve Jobs.

Steve Jobs。

Did you work with him?

你跟他共事过吗？

I know that you work at Apple, but did you did you guys directly work together?

我知道你在 Apple 工作过，但你们俩有没有直接一起做过事？

No, I never worked with him directly.

没有，我从来没跟他直接共事过。

But you know, a lot of the the projects I worked on clearly got got uh you know, his visibility.

但我做过的很多项目，显然都到过他眼前。

who would you invite to your dinner party?

你会请谁来你的晚宴？

Who would I invite to a dinner party?

我会请谁来晚宴？

How many people can I invite?

我能请多少人？

It's your party.

这可是你的宴会。

Um you know, today like somebody that I'd really like to kind of understand what's what's kind of going through their head is um Mr. ⟨?Mamdani⟩ who's running for office in New York.

放到今天的话，有个人我特别想搞明白他脑子里在想什么——在纽约竞选公职的 Mr. ⟨?Mamdani⟩。

Like, I think it's a really interesting kind of cultural moment um that I think is likely to have some interesting ripple effects all over the world.

我觉得这是一个很有意思的文化时刻，很可能在全世界激起一些有意思的涟漪。

how do you stay calm all the time?

你是怎么做到一直这么平静的？

So, I feel like whenever I talk with you, your energy is like you are taking your time to think about some stuff.

我感觉每次跟你聊天，你身上那种气场就是——你会给自己留出时间，把一些事情想一想。

I feel like I need that energy.

我觉得我需要那种气场。

Maybe it's just because I'm old.

可能只是因为我老了吧。

I I I just maybe this is something I've developed over the years that, you know, there's a lot of signals like particularly in our space we're inundated with lots of data.

这大概是我这些年慢慢练出来的——外面的信号太多了，尤其在我们这个领域，数据多到能把人淹没。

You know, some of it being um kind of chaotic.

其中有些还挺混乱的。

So, I think for me I just need to try to cut through that noise and uh maybe maybe take a little bit um of a moment to like let's things sink in instead of, you know, reacting automatically.

所以对我来说，我得努力穿过那些噪音，也许停一会儿，让事情先沉一沉，而不是条件反射式地马上反应。

Um what are something that you felt like you have experienced that like I feel like sometimes a lot of times it just like needs immediate reaction or like I think like a lot of times like what if like there's like a situation that like you are encountering like a conflict with people and then how do you kind of like adjust yourself to like calm down and then like be thought through about your reaction to things.

那有没有一些你自己经历过的事情，就是——我感觉很多时候情况会逼着你立刻反应，比如说，万一你碰上一个跟别人起冲突的场面，你是怎么调整自己、先冷静下来，再把自己的反应想清楚的？

I think like moments of stress, whether it's, you know, things that might happen in your personal life or your professional life is that people tend to to react better to calm than like anger or, you know, being like bombastic.

我觉得在压力时刻——不管是个人生活里出的事，还是工作上出的事——人对平静的反应，往往好过对愤怒、对那种气势汹汹的姿态。

I I I think that the um the ability to try to take you know, kind of turn down the temperature a little bit in any conversation helps.

我觉得，能在任何一场对话里把温度往下调一点，这种能力是有用的。

Um it's something that maybe I learned the hard way way over over the years, but it's something that I try to practice you know, in everything I do.

这可能是我这些年吃了苦头才学会的，但我在做每件事的时候都努力这么去做。

amazing.

太棒了。

Where can we find you outside of work?

工作之外，我们在哪儿能找到你？

Outside of work, on a tennis court.

工作之外，在网球场上。

I love that.

我喜欢这个答案。

Um last last question is um you know, I saw on LinkedIn you started your career in like the University of Kansas and then you were um originally an immigrant yourself like and then now obviously you're very successful.

最后一个问题是，我在 LinkedIn 上看到你的职业生涯是从堪萨斯大学开始的，你自己原本也是个移民，而现在你显然非常成功。

Like, what do you feel like you have done right to like help you get to where you are and then what are some stuff that you wish you have you could have done like differently?

你觉得你做对了什么，才走到今天这一步，又有哪些事是你希望自己当初可以换个做法的？

Um you know, I I'm an immigrant.

我是个移民。

Um you know, my parents were college professors.

我父母都是大学教授。

They instilled in us like, you know, learning is a lifelong journey.

他们从小就给我们灌输一个观念：学习是一辈子的事。

you know, invest in things that you like to learn and, you know, that will open up sort of interesting pathways in life.

在你喜欢学的东西上投入，这会给人生打开一些很有意思的路径。

and I I I also think that you know, immigrants that that did not, you know, have the like multi-generational um resources, wealth, um they are more motivated, right?

我还觉得，移民如果身后没有几代人攒下的资源和财富，动力反而更强，对吧？

We we tend to um work very hard.

我们往往会格外拼命。

We tend to um maybe make more sacrifices, particularly early in our career.

我们往往会做出更多牺牲，尤其是在职业生涯早期。

and that it does I think for a lot of us help create a foundation that we could build on.

我觉得这确实帮我们很多人打下了一个可以往上垒的底子。

Not not true for everybody.

当然不是每个人都这样。

but I I you know, if if you look at my resume, I've I've transitioned from like um very like maybe I see you know, I started in like computer graphics and maybe I've kind of come back to it, but in between I've done a lot of interesting different tech jobs because I I love learning about new things.

但你要是看我的简历，我一开始是做计算机图形的，也许现在算是又绕回来了，中间我做过很多不一样的技术岗位，都挺有意思，因为我喜欢学新东西。

And it it helps, you know, keeps you alert and and learning.

这挺有用的，能让你一直保持警觉、保持学习。

I love that.

我很喜欢这一点。

I feel like this this was actually really resonating like the in the last part of which is like you have done a lot of like different part of the job.

我觉得最后这一段真的很有共鸣，就是你做过很多不同类型的工作。

So, I've you know, we have like the CMO of Deloitte on our show.

我们节目请过 Deloitte 的 CMO。

So, she was at Deloitte for like 26 years, but she I think her lessons was also like she was within the same company.

她在 Deloitte 待了大概 26 年，但我觉得她的心得也是——她虽然一直待在同一家公司。

She had done like various different roles that kind of like equip her to like run the whole like thing in the end.

但她做过各种不同的岗位，这些经历某种程度上把她练了出来，让她最后能把整摊事管起来。

So, like I feel like it's very kind of resonating from your story as well.

所以我觉得你的故事也让我很有共鸣。

So, like you have done like different jobs that like, you know, meets your like curiosity at as well as well as like, you know, your learning.

就是你做过不同的工作，那些工作既喂饱了你的好奇心，也满足了你想学东西的那部分。

So, nowadays you are like running a very um successful business.

而现在，你在经营一家非常成功的公司。

Um okay, so super appreciate you coming on the show.

好，非常感谢你来上我们的节目。

Quick shout out to all the audience who kind of like chimed in.

也快速点名感谢一下所有在评论区参与互动的观众。

So, Surya, Sachin, Carl, Selena, Selena again.

Surya、Sachin、Carl、Selena，Selena 又来了一条。

Appreciate you guys' comments and Mahi, thank you so much for coming on the show today.

谢谢大家的评论，Mahi，非常感谢你今天来上节目。

It was such a momentous conversation.

这真是一场很有分量的对话。

Well, thank you, Grace.

谢谢你，Grace。

Happy to be here.

很高兴能来。

Uh let me quickly end stream.

我快速把直播结束一下。